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It’s a question that reaches far beyond veganism. Whether we’re talking about our health, our relationships, or our values, all of us have experienced the tension between what we know and what we’re ready to do.
My guest today is philosopher, author and educator Matthew C. Halteman. Matt is Professor of Philosophy at Calvin University in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a Fellow at the Oxford Centre for Animal Ethics in the UK, and the author of the fabulous book Hungry, Beautiful Animals: The Joyful Case for Going Vegan.
In our first podcast (E913) we explored compassion, flourishing, and the idea that so many people are “vegans in waiting.” Today we take that conversation further.
We explore why curiosity is more powerful than certainty, the difference between a blocked mindset and an aspiring mindset, and whether we’re responsible for the things we choose not to know.
We also unpack one of my favourite parts of Matt’s work: his distinction between outrage and disgust. Why does one so often make us defensive while the other can open the door to genuine curiosity?
This conversation isn’t about winning arguments. It’s about understanding the parts of ourselves (and others) a little better, recognising why change feels so difficult, and discovering what becomes possible when we stop defending the status quo and start getting curious.
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Why do good people resist good ideas?
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What is the difference between a blocked mindset and an aspiring mindset?
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The Ethics of Ignorance: Is ignorance always innocent?
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Many people don’t know (the extent of) what happens to animals. Many actively avoid finding out. Is there an ethical difference?
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Are we responsible for what we don’t want to know?
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What role does curiosity play in moral growth?
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Disgust vs Outrage: Why might disgust be more useful than anger?
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Does outrage tend to create defensiveness? What is the value is disgust?
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What does abundance actually mean? Not as consumption, or accumulation – abundance as flourishing.
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What becomes available when we stop defending the status quo?
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If someone listening is what Matt calls a “vegan in waiting,” they feel the tension, they’re curious, but they’re not ready yet, what would Matt hope they do next?
Yet again, there was so much we didn’t get to, which simply means I’ll have to invite Matt back.
One area I’m especially fascinated to explore next is speciesism and moral consistency. Why is it so easy to love animals… until loving them asks something of us? Why does cognitive dissonance so often arrive the moment compassion requires what feels like a personal sacrifice?
Even as I ask those questions, I notice my own mind wanting to drift towards judgement and disappointment. And I think that’s one of the greatest gifts of Matt’s work. It continually invites us back to curiosity. Back to hope. Back to the belief that people are capable of change when they’re given the space to grow rather than the pressure to defend themselves.
If today’s conversation resonated with you, I can’t recommend Matt’s book Hungry, Beautiful Animals highly enough. It carries the same wisdom, warmth, humour and generosity that you heard throughout this conversation.
Matt’s websites and where you can buy Hungry Beautiful Animals: www.hungrybeautifulanimals.com and www.matthewchalteman.weebly.com
That’s it for this week in Healthification.
This journal and daily planner follows a twelve month format however is not dated so it is perfect to use at ANY time of the year.
Connect with Kate across the socials: Facebook | Twitter | Instagram | LinkedIn | YouTube and her Skool Community, Plant Positive.
With love and gratitude plant friends.
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EATING PLANT BASED IS SO MUCH EASIER THAN I EXPECTED!